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Neuer LFP Akku der SR+ / Reichweite, Kapazität, Laderaten bis 12.02.2021

Denke da liegt Nervtoeter richtig. Da könnte man in den letzten 8 Jahren Tesla viele Details nennen die sich geändert haben, und heute bestenfalls Profis kennen. Es geht nunmal ständig weiter. Sollte der LFP allerdings tatsächlich Nachteile bzw. Unbequemlichkeiten im Winter haben, wofür technologisch manches spricht, kann sich der Spieß auch umdrehen.

Mein SR+ hatte im September nicht den damals letzten Softwarestand, bei Auslieferung SoC 37%. Bin dann ca. 65km nach Regensburg an den SuC gefahren, mit irgendwas 20% angekommen, und er hat mit 120kW geladen.
Ich wüsste nichts von einer gedrosselten „Auslieferungssoftware“.

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War bei meinem genauso. Aber das war alles vor dem Refresh und den neuen Akkus.
Die Refresh-Modelle scheinen derzeit offenbar nicht mit voller Geschwindigkeit zu laden, mit der .35er-Software.

Immerhin war die Ladung am Ausliefertag umsonst, wurde weder von der Kreditkarte noch vom Guthaben abgezogen. Da soll man nicht meckern wenns langsamer geht :slight_smile:

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Hi!
First of all, sorry for writing in English but i’m from Sweden and my German is not the best.

I have ordered one of the China maid SR+ (Black/Black with hitch) and was initially convinced that the LFP battery would be a great deal, but now i’m getting more and more concerned.
Maybe shouldn’t have googled so much…

I have found sources from this forum, other forums, twitter etc. that indicates some problems.

Slow charge from 10-60%, I know it’s faster from 10-95% but usually you charge less at a lower SoC when on a road trip.
Not the same range in cold climate as NCA batteries, the SR+ is already on the „edge“ in winter.
Unstable SoC bellow 5 degrese C.
Higher „Phantom Drain“

Have anyone here heard anything official from Tesla about this?
Charging curves for with V3 charger?
Range in cold climate? (The cars must have been tested in that but never seen anything official)

I’m afraid that we (the customer) are being the guinea pigs hear but can Tesla jeopardize their reputation?

And a google translation that seems ok:

Ich habe eines der chinesischen SR + (Schwarz / Schwarz mit Anhängerkupplung) bestellt und war anfangs davon überzeugt, dass die LFP-Batterie sehr viel sein würde, aber jetzt mache ich mir immer mehr Sorgen.
Vielleicht hätte ich nicht so viel googeln sollen …

Ich habe Quellen aus diesem Forum, anderen Foren, Twitter usw. gefunden, die auf einige Probleme hinweisen.

Langsame Ladung von 10-60%, ich weiß, dass sie von 10-95% schneller ist, aber normalerweise laden Sie bei einem Roadtrip weniger bei einem niedrigeren SoC auf.
Bei kaltem Klima nicht die gleiche Reichweite wie bei NCA-Batterien, ist der SR + im Winter bereits am Rande.
Instabiles SoC unter 5 Grad C.
Höherer „Phantom Drain“

Hat hier jemand etwas offizielles von Tesla darüber gehört?
Ladekurven für mit V3-Ladegerät?
Reichweite bei kaltem Klima? (Die Autos müssen darin getestet worden sein, haben aber noch nie etwas offizielles gesehen)

Ich befürchte, dass wir (der Kunde) die Meerschweinchen hören, aber kann Tesla ihren Ruf gefährden?

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Wie nun eigentlich schon mehrfach erwähnt wurde, macht es momentan absolut Null Sinn, die Ladeleistungen zu vergleichen.

Tesla hat sich in der Vergangenheit immer über Updates an die maximale Ladekurve bereits ausgelieferter Autos angenähert. Warum sollte das jetzt bei einer neuen Batterie anders sein?

Zur Erinnerung als Beispiel:

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At the Moment there is not much that is known for sure. It is a little bit like gambling with these cars until the first owners share their experience. It‘s also a matter of how much you trust Tesla to make sure that the user experience is not to bad in any case

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Better say: „We do not know!“
Wait and see and drink a tea. :thinking:

Hi and welcome.
You have to be aware that all you read on the internet about this topic is purely speculative.
NOBODY has any qualified information, since the vehicles haven’t been delivered, yet.
Tesla doesn’t give any official information. Some of their sales people do make some statements but they are generally not well informed so I would not rely on that.
There is some qualified information from China since M3 with the LFP battery is already getting delivered in China. But what we do not know is whether the charging is really the same in China as in Europe, Tesla’s superchargers in China seem to be a bit different.

There’s also another aspect: We don’t know whether whatever you see now will be final. In the past Tesla has started with relatively conservative charging- and performance figures and later increased those with software updates.

Regarding temperature there is very little information to be found, nobody in China seems to have extensively tested the Model 3 LFP battery in really cold temperatures. Tesla does, though, and if they sell it here I’d expect them to at least be confident that it doesn’t completely break but battery performance might get a significant hit, we just don’t know.

I think it’s definitely a risk and also depends a bit on your usage profile. I don’t think we’ll really know how the car will eventually perform with charging until probably into 2021 when a few SW update cycles are through.
And we won’t know cold temperature performance until someone in Sweden, Norway, Finland or the like has tested it for a while. That probably all won’t happen before your delivery date.

OTOH Tesla advertises it with more range so that has to mean something.
It will also depend on your usage scenario. If you can charge often and if you can pre-heat the vehicle at home or at work (connected to the grid) before starting, I wouldn’t be too concerned. If you are parking it on the street very often and then have to go long distanced it might be a real problem.

If you are really concerned, the 2021 models are probably a better bet since they have the heat pump which will help quite a bit at low temperatures. I’m not sure, though, that there’s really a guarantee that 2021 SR+ models won’t be LFP-models from China again, we don’t know when they are going to switch production there and Tesla’s need to better make use of their production capacity won’t just go away with the year change.

So whatever you do, right now it will be a bit of a risk-taking unless you buy the LR model which is better known (but currently also charges slowly, but nobody expects it to stay that way).

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I will try :slight_smile:
Right now it’s hard to sleep due to all things flying around in my mind… My delivery is 15/12 so hopefully some people have already got them and can share their initial tests.

Google hat mir wieder bei der Übersetzung geholfen, höflich zu sein:

Ich werde versuchen :slight_smile:
Im Moment ist es schwer zu schlafen, weil alle Dinge in meinem Kopf herumfliegen … Meine Lieferung ist 15/12, also haben hoffentlich einige Leute sie bereits und können ihre ersten Tests teilen.

Thank you for a great answer!

I will think that Tesla wont sell a product in Sweden if it wont perform well in cold climate, however, as you say, nobody knows.
Of some reason it’s not sold in Norway though, don’t know why… hope it’s not because of the climate.
Right now it’s the discount that makes the china made interesting and LR is, for me, not needed as long as the LFP doesn’t perform really bad during winter.
With the current SR+ I would handle the majority of all trips I do with just a short extra stop in the winter times according to ABRP.

Charging will be done at home every night but not at work, but i just have 10 km to work. :slight_smile:

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Ich möchte kurz auch noch anmerken, dass selbst CATL’s Reputation auf dem Spiel steht, wenn es hier eklatante negative Auswirkungen in Bezug auf die verwendeten LFP-Akkus geben sollte.
CATL baut in Thüringen (in unmittelbarer Nachbarschaft zu meiner Arbeitsstätte) ein riesiges Batteriewerk und soll wohl in Zukunft diverse deutsche und europäische Hersteller beliefern. Allen voran steht da BMW als Hauptkunde in der Warteschlange.
Vertraut einfach mal drauf, dass CATL schon weiß, was sie da tun.
So gehe ich jedenfalls ran und freue mich auf meine Auslieferung am 19.12. in Hannover.

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CATL veröffentlichte zu den LFPs zumindest dies hier:

  • Ultraschnelle Aufladung: Basierend auf den von CATL entwickelten
    Batteriezellen können sowohl NMC- als auch LFP-Akkus in 15 Minuten
    auf 80 Prozent geladen werden, was eine Fahrleistung von 400
    Kilometern gewährleistet. Diese Effizienz sorgt für mehr Komfort
    bei langen Fahrten mit E-Mobilen.
  • Lange Akkulaufzeit: CATL setzt technologische Innovationen zur
    Verbesserung der EV-Batterielaufzeit ein und hat eine
    Gesamtlaufzeit von 600.000 Kilometern erreicht. Die lange
    Batterielebensdauer erweitert die Einsatzmöglichkeiten und schafft
    einen Mehrwert für den Verbraucher - nicht nur in Elektro-Autos,
    sondern auch bei der Sekundärnutzung der Batterien.
  • Anpassung an die Umwelt: Die von CATL entwickelten Batterien
    arbeiten in einem Temperaturbereich von -30°C bis 60°C. Ihre
    Selbsterhitzungstechnologie kann dazu beitragen, dass sich die
    Batterie in 15 Minuten von -20°C auf 10°C erwärmt, was es
    ermöglicht, EVs unter extremen Arbeitsbedingungen einzusetzen.

Quelle: https://www.presseportal.de/pm/126209/4365537

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With that profile I would not be too concerned.
If you can keep the vehicle plugged in at home you can pre-heat it before you start and that will mitigate most of the temperature issues. Heat loss during the drive won’t be that bad and you will always have enough charge for that trip to work and back home, even if the vehicle had to use some power for keeping the battery at temperature during the day, the batter insulation is quite good.

And a single charge for a long-distance trip also is not that much of an issue unless you really have to go to 100%. If you don’t do that every day and you have to wait 5 or 10 minutes longer, is this really a deal-breaker? Here around Berlin most Superchargers only deliver 150kW max, in practice that often didn’t get me well beyond 100kW, too, and it’s still pretty fast. If I do a really long trip on German highways where speed and power consumption are a bit different from what I’ve experienced in Sweden that might be a bit different, if I do 3 or 4 stops then 10 minutes more per stop can add up, but with a single one I would not be concerned.

Also: on long distances you lose a lot less range due to cold temperatures than for short distances in a cold car because you don’t have all the initial heating loss and the battery can be kept at temperature by the heat produced by the drivetrain (battery and motor) while driving, even without a heat pump.

It really depends on the setup. Myself, I can’t charge at home and during the day charging stations around me are sometimes all blocked so I want to be flexible WRT charging and I can’t pre-heat. Also, while I live in Berlin and the infrastructure in the city is pretty good, the area around Berlin (Brandenburg) in some areas has really bad charging infrastructure and I go there quite regularly right now. In such a scenario - you can’t charge at home and you are frequently doing >100km rides where you can’t expect to be able to charge at the destination - I would not recommend the SR+ but your setup looks a lot better (and I think charging infrastructure is better in Sweden than over here, at least that was my impression earlier this year when I visited with an iPace from Norway. Also during winter. Actually that was pretty comparable because I think the iPace has a somewhat similar range as the Model 3, maybe even less, at least the car said so: 320km at 100%).

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Das wäre ja mal geil :smiley:

That is exactly what I need to hear, just hope that it’s this technology that is used by CATL in Teslas.

Also this part is maybe one of the reason why they ship 7000 cars to Europe.

„For CATL, Europe is a key region for strategic growth. Through targeted investments, the company has built close partnerships with leading European OEMs (Original Equipment Manufacturers). Products that have already been developed together with these OEM partners are about to be ready for the market. Together with its global partners, CATL is committed to continuous innovation to strengthen the spread of e-mobility and move the world with renewable energies.“

If they have 7000 Teslas with their technology in Europe that show great performance they will gain a really good reputation.

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Nein, der einzige Grund, warum die 7.000 nach Europa verschiffen, liegt darin, das Tesla diese in China nicht verkauft bekommt. Auch Tesla hat nichts davon 2 unterschiedliche Modelle gleichzeitig in einem Markt zu haben (Verwirrung -> nicht gut).

Ist es ok, wenn ich auf Deutsch antworte? Ich habe den Eindruck, verstehen/lesen kannst du…

Das doch mal ein Aussage -> -20 Grad = kein Problem. Zumindest in Deutschland reicht das für jeden Anwendungsfall.

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This is good… IF it applies to the LFP batteries used in SR+ now… I really hope so.

Good luck! :+1:

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Why are you so keen on the LiFePO4 batteries?
They are so heavy that the car has almost no payload left (only 230 kg plus driver)…